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Content-Driven Design – Let’s Throw out Tradition
First off, I would like to extend my sincerest gratitude to all the emails and Twitter messages I’ve received over the impending redesign of Tripping Words; it is going slowly but steadily. The new website design will pay closer heed (albeit with a hint of measured defiance!) to proven aesthetic principles and more importantly it will feature a more robust content-driven interface.
With that in mind, today’s article will address my own personal opinions (and gripes) on what the term “content-driven” means to designers/bloggers within the design fraternity. This piece will also serve as an “advanced-justification” to certain trends and stylistic treatments I’ve adopted for the new design.
The Boring Definition – Bla…Bla…Bla
In the most traditional usage of the word, content-driven websites are ultimately more focused in how primary content is presented and delivered to an online audience. Factors pertaining to web-usability and readability emerge at the fore-front when one discusses issues of content. Good web copy and content need to be supported by a sound foundational structure – design. While it is true that content informs design, design should also aid in nurturing the quality of content and emphasize why the stuff you write on your website is worth reading.
I will be first to admit that the practice of designing for content was something which I (rather ignorantly) glossed over when conceptualizing the original design of Tripping Words. If the pull-factor of your website lies in your content, then it is entirely necessary to adopt a design structure that breathes life into the words you so painstakingly churn out on a regular basis. But is our understanding of content-driven web pages correctly conceived? I think not.
Why Reader Comments Should Never be Displayed at the Bottom of Your Post
Why do design bloggers/designers (including myself) remain adamant on having reader-comments posted at the bottom of each blog post? Logically speaking, it does makes sense to have the comments displayed after each post, because it ensures that the reader is able to fully decipher the content before proceeding to comment (duh!). There is however a serious flaw in the presentational philosophy of comments.
Reader comments are perhaps the most valuable aspect of a content-driven website. It is a reflection of how discursively engaged your readers are with the content at hand. I do believe that reader comments should be realigned to meet centrally with the main featured article. This means that readers will be able to read the article and also enjoy the comments simultaneously. Web-usability evangelists will probably beat me up for saying this, but I’ve started to get used to these verbal barrages.
While some might feel that a central display for both comments and articles together will be overtly overwhelming for readers, I feel it encourages more discussion. The truth is, many readers often skim over an article but pay more attention to the comments generated from it because they are shorter and generally more succinct and they also provide an overview of what the article is really about. It is my (although empirically unsupported) belief that most online readers rarely read an entire article. It would not surprise me if most of the visitors here on Tripping Words, pay attention to the sub-headings only. That is the general browsing behaviour of an online audience – fleeting and distracted. This is not a good reader/bad reader argument; it is simply an established fact.
Feed the Distraction, Don’t fight it
By displaying reader comments in a more prominent place that is visible together with the main article, we are effectively feeding this distraction, and this, as silly as it sounds, is a good thing. Readers are then pronged from their taciturn zones and encouraged to react and follow the stream of conversation. While an information-overload can present an obvious headache, there is an inner part in all of us that screams for visual/intellectual stimulation; we want our eyes to be kept busy and entertained. Reams of text from a single article often induce a kind of drowsiness which in turn translates to a reader clicking away onto another page. If the front landing page of your website is also the top exit page, then this is probably the case.
My rule for content-driven design is to always sustain the reader’s attention for as long as possible, and by keeping comments and articles adjoined positionally (with proper white spacing etc), we might just get readers playing to our tune. The principle may seem contradictory at first but by increasing reader “distraction” we might get the right kind of attention; the kind of attention that is directed to the conversational flow of an article/post, rather than a fleeting/fragmented attention to “content-peripherals” such as the sub-headings of a particular article.
Readers Write the Content
Readers are more important than we think. They effectively write the content of article-driven websites, through their comments and various types of responses. Reader comments often shape our perception on the quality of content that is presented. While this is perhaps an unfair assertion to make, it is a regrettably honest one. If an article receives quality comments (either in terms of quantity or quality), it would automatically be endorsed as a website’s most prized asset.
Show Readers the Respect they Deserve
Since readers are also authors, show them the respect they deserve. It would be great if reader comments themselves could be presented in a fashion that is similar to the main article. Having a simple “By: Author-Name” bar line and allowing headings for comments would effectively place a higher level of importance on reader comments, while at the same time encouraging more readers to take the plunge into adding their own response to an already elegantly presented pool of buzzing comments.
My Question to You:
Are you ready to break with tradition and explore fresher alternatives to how content is presented online?
Side Note: The New Design
Well, here is a preview (it hardly qualifies as a “preview” but it shows what I am working on!) of the new design direction of Tripping Words. I’ve practiced some of the pointers mentioned above and also taken a keen interest in visual detail. A full screenshot of the whole design will be up in due course.
On a related note, I can also assure you that I’ve moved away from my radical experiments with line-height ratios and adopted a more reasonable font-display measurement that should render decently in all good browsers/resolutions. I understand the discomfort perpetuated for some readers who dislike larger display fonts etc. But nevertheless, in the name of character and tradition (of Tripping Words), line-heights/fonts in this current iteration will not be adjusted until the new design is up.
Would love to hear your responses!
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38
- Content-Driven Design – Let’s Throw out Tradition
PUBLISHED BY: Josh on 2nd Feb 10 -
10
- Redesigning Personal Projects – A Critical Analysis
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- Designing an Idea - How to Beautify your Inspiration
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- The Risk of Being Unique – The Logic of Design Styles
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- A “Bystander’s Perspective” on the Design Community
PUBLISHED BY: Josh on 29th Dec 09 -
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- Designing Beautiful User-Experiences for the Web
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- What is Design? A Thorough Analysis of Definitions
PUBLISHED BY: Josh on 18th Dec 09 -
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- A Guide to Writing Killer Content for Your Design Blog
PUBLISHED BY: Josh on 14th Dec 09 -
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- Transform Creative Ideas into Stunning Designs
PUBLISHED BY: Josh on 10th Dec 09 -
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PUBLISHED BY: Josh on 8th Dec 09 -
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- A Primer on Keeping the Creative Flame Alive
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- A Guide to Writing Effectively about Design
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- Designers & Vampires – The Creative Mind
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Tripping Words runs on a customized version of Expression Engine. This whole website is dynamically randered through multiple EE templates. 
Ballsy thinking. Good start. Some thoughts of my own…
“By displaying reader comments in a more prominent place that is visible together with the main article, we are effectively feeding this distraction, and this, as silly as it sounds, is a good thing….”
Your goal is worthy but I believe your method to be mad. Visually unusable. An alternative might be to have a comment marker within each paragraph. The marker could be pushed to deliver a comments box with a “post a comment” box specific to that paragraph.
“Readers write the content”
The dialecticness (new word by -DJN) of content-driven design lends itself to the formation of new ideas (and words, it seems). All that is required is a starting point. From that point we need to be able to expand the content in multiple dimensions. More of a mind-map approach to content creation. The “comment markers” method mentioned above gets us closer to multi-dimensional content.
Hot damn, that redesign is looking mighty sexy!
I like where you’re going with comments alongside posts. However, off the top of my head there are a number of issues that could arise.
Comments are not noticed.
Comments are noticed but the content to the left/right isn’t given the full attention it deserves.
Some comments can be huge! Unless you have a design with two equal columns, you may see unbalanced content. Loads of comments for a small post, or few comments for a large post.
Furthermore, if the reader sees the comments but wants to read the post first. He has to scroll through the post and then scroll all the way up again to begin reading the comments.
I like how you are taking a step back though Josh. Whilst reading your article I thought of a comment-annotation method. Comments can be positioned alongside a certain paragraph or image.
You have me left me thinking
Sublime article as always Josh.
Another great post here, Josh! I always look forward to your articles, and find them to be very inspiring!
I completely agree with you in that a content-driven website (such as a blog) is formed around the reader’s comments.. and it does mystify me at times as to why comments appear at the bottom of the post all the time.
If we consider this logically - some of the most interesting and informative information related to any given article are the comments that accompany it. At the same time, if we consider that most designers still stick to the traditional “above the fold” tactic when designing… surely this is a contradiction by placing such important content right at the bottom of the page?
I personally like to be able to read as much as I can as soon as I can, and it can be a pain having to scroll constantly up and down the page, making references to different parts of an article in relation to the comments made about it - side-along comments not only make this referencing much easier, but it also serves, in my opinion, to make the page richer.. it seems such a waste of space to have a full-width article, and then masses of whitespace when you reach the comments.
However.. I am a little saddened by this article also! The blog I am going to be launching in the next few weeks makes use of side-along comments (as opposed to being below the post) and I wanted it to be a surprise! Just goes to show that things are always changing, evolving!
On a side note… I’m really looking forward to the site redesign! Although this current design is magnificent in my view :D
Keep up the good work!!
Interesting post Josh. I have often thought about the possibility of having comments running down the side of an article. I’ve seen it done a few times, but never really effectively, so it would present a design challenge, to be certain.
On the other hand, it also shifts the concept of the sidebar, which I suppose can be both negative and positive. On one side, it would shake things up a little and maybe help reduce over packing the sidebar with widgets.
At the same time, though, it could throw a wrench into current navigation conventions, where readers expect to find navigational elements in the sidebar.
Also, one would need to consider what would happen if an article received a large number of comments, causing the content in the sidebar to stretch much longer than the main content itself. This could potentially result in a greatly unbalanced page.
Just some thoughts. Great article, though. Thanks for writing it
Interesting. Re: Comments, I’ve already done that. When I redesigned my blog (http://www.frobba.com) a few years back, I opted to move the comments to the right-hand sidebar.
I originally stuck comments at the bottom because my posts were generally short, so comments added some bulk to the page. Now that my posts are typically around 1000 words, there’s enough length to where comments look nice next to the content.
I’ve also opted to show only one post per page. I did this because my posts are generally far apart and i wanted to display my most recent post front-and-center since I generally blog about stuff that is important to me, or related to current events, so I don’t want old-news swallowing up something topical.
I never considered it before, but I suppose I did design my site around the content.
Josh, another bout of written wizardry here with your words captivating the minds and attention of those on both sides of this train of thought: Comments alongside the article??
It’s a crazy world, and we have to have leaders in such thoughts - it’s great that you’ll be one of those focused enough to do this with your own blog and press forward with it being part of your own redesign.
Styling would be a very big factor in balancing the Readers’ attention between the article and the comments = You’d want the reader to be engaged by your content but, as you say, they’ll be distracted; so, to counter-act their wondering eye, you could enhance the typical comments box to include sleek and suitable styling for the Name, Date and Content for the “commenter” to break it up from the subsequent and preceding comments.
But I’m guessing you’d got an ace up your sleeve on this one (or is it a mustached queen?) and are already a step ahead of me in how you’re going to “Give the readers the respect they deserve” and make their comments look like mini posts themselves.
I really enjoyed this post and cannot wait for further details on your redesign.
Ooh, before I forget - an interesting thing Jad is doing over at DesignInformer is including the “Commenter’s” own latest blog post at the footer of their comment on his blog - it’s a nice way to say thank you to people who comment, by giving other readers the chance to check out other blogs of interest.
For now, signing off, but I’ll probably be back to read this again very soon!
Regards,
Laneth Sffarlenn
Josh, another excellent article. Although I don’t completely agree with all that you have said in this post, it definitely gets me thinking.
Just like you, I’m actually doing a redesign myself and am also thinking of doing some unique things. Like the others who have commented before, I’ve also thought of putting the comments on the side, but after weighing the pros and cons, I decided to stick with the traditional way, although I don’t think putting it in the sidebar is wrong at all, if implemented correctly, then it can work. Hope it looks great on your new blog design. When will you be sending me a screenshot?
By the way, adding headlines to the comments did get me thinking though. That seems like a great idea, but the only negative thing is that it’s another field that the commenter has to fill and our goal is to make it as easy and as simple as possible for them to leave a comment.
Thanks again for another thought-provoking article that has stimulated my little brain.
Hi Josh,
Thanks for a great read and a eye-opener on the comments-topic and it’s place in the layout/design!
I do understand your point of view about giving the people who commented some extra credits, by placing the comments in a sidebar along the article. And why not? A article becomes a good article when it’s accompanied with good and constructive comments. So give them some exposure!
I’m very interested if you’ll implement this into the redesign (?), because it could become your worst design-nightmare when you’ll have like 50+ comments?
(just look at the lenght of the 7 comments already placed?)
Nevertheless, a great read and an eye-opener! Thanks for that, Cheers & Ciao ...
*Warning: This comment will be insanely long, so get your sunglasses ready if you are going to read it”
@James (DJ) Nickles
Hi James, thanks for the enriching response. You have really made some solid points.
I have to agree that my ideas run directly against the grain of common usability principles. The comment-marker system is indeed a novel approach to presenting comments. But how exactly would the comments be displayed? At the bottom of each post or through a Jquery effect which pops out the comment when the user clicks on a specific element within that paragraph? I like the idea about having comments that are attached to each paragraph. Very interesting!!
I am all for mind-maps. After all in this age of interactivity, multi-dimensional content is crucial to truly realising the potentialities of online discussion. I guess the main challenge is to find a clear and neat presentational method which reduces visual clutter and encourages conversation.
@Liam McCabeHello Liam, thanks for your comment. Your posts are always thought-provoking!
Glad that you like the new-design. As time progresses, I’ll be able to show more “complete screenshots”.
I agree that could be a visual imbalance with side-comments and main posts, but I guess if you write articles of a general length (at TW, I try to keep most articles to at least 1200-1300 words), than that imbalance would be less pronounced? (I might be completely wrong here, just a thought) So based on the above rationale, I am presuming that the side-comments system would suit certain websites and not others.
There are definitely some usability issues. Certain hugely popular websites who follow the normal comments-below-post rule tend to involve some tedious scrolling too especially when each post grosses around 150-200 comments (Smashing Magazine for example?). There is nothing wrong with this, but with volume, comes usability problems.
The comment-annotation method is a good idea. In the new design, I have implemented a customized annotation feature for specific terms/words.
Annotated comments seems like a good idea, but the only challenge would be to find a suitable method of styling these comments. Now, you’ve got me thinking!
@apsorksThanks for the kind words Apsorks. Your post has summarised my main points in impeccable fashion. (This is why comments are so very important). We definitely think alike. Either way, I am sure your design will have certain unique characteristics that will make it stand out and be noticed.
I guess the very idea of having side-comments by a post instantly brings out certain initial doubts, but if it’s styled properly (appropriate font weight and style etc), I think it can be a major success.
We hate to admit it, but we all love a bit of visual stimulation now and again, as long as it’s done cleverly. I guess the challenge for designers is also to make “clutter look appealing”.
@ Matt WardHi Matt, thanks for adding to the discussion. I am a huge fan of your work at Echo Enduring. Having side-comments is certainly a design challenge. In fact if done wrongly, it can be a major disaster. I guess it’s a risky route to take but what’s design without the occasional precarious adrenaline rush.
The imbalance between side-bar and content is definitely possible, which is why one has to fairly sure of the length of articles on the site and the number of comments they typically generate.
The reverse is also true, when a post receives less comments and a huge white space remains as a result. I have tried to avoid this with the new design by also including snippets of my twitter feed if the comments received are less than a specific number. Not a complete solution, but I’m hoping this will work.
@GeoffHello Geoff, thanks for submitting the link! It really proves my point and I am hoping that it will also encourage more people to be adventurous when it comes to styling comments.
I’ve had a look at your blog and I like how it’s presented. It is neat and there is very little clutter.
Side-comments seem to being out the “editorial-feel” of a post, like in magazine pages, where you see side-bars so very often. This trend is still in its infancy stage, but it is certainly bourgeoning.
Oh and I love the tag-line of your blog – totally humorous!
@ Laneth SffarlennHaha..hello Laneth. There’s never a dull moment when conversing with you be it on Twitter or at TW. Thanks for sharing your valuable insights!
I couldn’t agree with you more. Styling will become a major factor if this presentational style of comments is to achieve its full potential. I am a strong proponent of valuing reader comments and if a comment could be transformed into a “mini-article” that would certainly show how important readers are to the development of any website.
Jad has some very interesting presentational styles on Design Informer. The “latest blog post” plug-in is definitely a direction I want to take, although I might have to write/code the plug-in myself because ExpressionEngine doesn’t seem to have that feature.
In fact I’ll go a step further by saying that more credit should be attributed to the reader rather than the author of the article, precisely because they are the people who add to the dynamism of the entire page. Without comments, an article will remain empty especially for the distracted-online reader.
More details on the redesign to come shortly. I’ve got a few new additions.
Thanks again Laneth and hope to see you around these parts soon!
@ Design InformerHello Jad, thanks for stopping by and posting your ever interesting thoughts. A full screenshot will follow soon, I promise. I am just making sure everything looks like it should. As I mentioned before, I am looking forward to your feedback. I’ve always been impressed with your ability to style and present information on Design Informer and you are probably one of the best in the business. It is truly a sublime skill you have!
I have to agree with you on the headlines for comments bit. When I wrote that I was rather hesitant. Any additional fields might deter commenters and besides some comments need not have headlines. It adds an extra step which might not work. I’ll have to think about that aspect. I’ve also tried to work more closely with recognised typographic styles (less radical mixing of sans serifs and serifs etc) and hopefully this will add to the overall look of the website design.
Thanks again Jad, and I am extremely excited about the new Design Informer design. I can’t wait!
@ Gonzo the GreatBefore I address your comment, I just want to say that you have the most creative online pseudonym I’ve come across in a long while!
Thanks so much for taking the time to comment and you have constructed an excellent argument. I am definitely in the same train of thought as you, in that, comments should receive maximum exposure. Why keep comments nestled at the bottom (if you can help it)? As writers we are always keen to ask for feedback/comments and it would be rather ironic to place such an important feature in a less noticeable part of the website.
Well, I intend to include a pagination feature that allows readers to click through to the next page of comments when there are too many comments in the first “page”. The front page itself will not change, but only the comments on the right will be updated with the second page comments. This is a thought I am still experimenting with though. Thanks again for the detailed observation.
Hey Josh, thanks for replying to me - don’t have long, but I just wanted to point out that my name has one “n” in Laneth
@Laneth
So sorry abt that Laneth. I must have been typing fast. It has been corrected.
Nice read Josh, it really makes you think about new challenges. I completely agree that comments are substantial part of blogs and without them blogs are simply sad. However, placing comments in sidebar would certainly raise many questions and some usability issues, like you mentioned in the article. For instance, how would it affect reading or commenting experience? It would be interesting to see and try this concept.
I am happy to claim the prize of 700th Comment.
I was thinking that, if it were possible, to present the comments in a “list” format down the side of the article that simply displays as a “header” that, when clicked, expands the comment out - then, accordian style, clicking the next “header” shrinks the first comment, and expands the next?
But then, it would depend on how usable the side-floated comments are and how destructive to the flow of the page having it set up like this would be.
It’s a pleasure to read your writing: You’re always thorough, logical, interesting, and thought provoking . . .
@JankoSome very good points Janko. Well, I guess the whole idea of comments in the sidebar is still an experimental step, but having said that, there are several sites who have already adopted this practice and they seem to be receiving mixed reviews. The earnest is on designers to find an appropriate visual and functional balance. In many ways, the side-bar comments system is similar to how certain editorial magazines (especially fashion mags) run their content in either horizontal or vertical grid-containers, in line with the main content.
@Laneth SffarlennI like your idea Laneth and it would be fairly easy to implement with jquery . This would also solve the issue of imbalance between comment and content boxes. The only problem I see arising is for those who prefer to style their comments without javascript, for some reason another. An interoperable way to present comments in the sidebar I guess would be to use CSS styling alone to clearly demarcate content and comments. But the accordion concept is certainly a possibility that should be explored further (I’m frankly tired of seeing accordions used in all the wrong places. So this is a fresher context!). Thanks for bringing that up!
@helenschmelenThanks so much for the kind words, although I must admit that I am still learning the craft of writing as each day progresses and I hope to eventually emerge as a better writer in due course. I’m certainly glad that you found the article enjoyable. Do stick around for future instalments.
Cheers
Nice attempt Josh. However, for the first time, I differ from your opinions on this. The idea of comments in the sidebar is amazing, but there are more issues than just usability and information overload that are at stake here.
If you plan to make comments appear side by side with your posts, then it needs to be CURATED.
To have 450 comments on a 1000 word article is not only ridiculous but also not pragmatic.
Similarly, most of the comments on mainstream blogs like Engadget/Smashing Mag are either “Great post” or a flame war (in case of engadget). The display of comments serves no purpose in such cases.
What you can do is, choose some of the best responses from the comments and twitter and display them in the sidebar.
Add a comment form at the end so if the user feels like, they can add a comment which gets added to the bottom form and not the sidebar. Curate the comments again to check the quality of comments.
Seems like it would give you the best of both the worlds.
I like this post a lot as it has me thinking about the design ideas for a new blog I am working on.
My main thing with comments in the sidebar would be that if you’re trying to sell advertising, it’d be pretty hard since the comments would replace the traditional sidebar.
My thoughts though are that if you split the page 50/50 under the content and sidebar, you could have comments on the left, and then the ‘add a comment’ box, author info box and maybe an advertisement on the right. The more people scroll the page, the right side stays still, so they can scroll the page, comment on each comment in particular and not have to scroll up and down to reply to multiple comments in one comment box.
Hi Josh,
haha, thanks for your (great) remark about my pseudonym!
Second of all, what a great idea to include a pagination feature! Pure brilliant, .. you could even do it with a jQuery-slider? Make a cool visual statement as well?
It’s just a thought, .. but I’m getting enthousiastic about it myself, haha! I just can’t wait any longer for your redesign now, haha! Success with it!
Thanks for your reply, Cheers & Ciao ...
forget the design and make sure it works under all browsers with or WITHOUT js enabled
It may look great but how useful is it?
What if there was an indexing system that prompted commenters to
allocate a compulsory tag (via a numeric system, perhaps) to the paragraphor topic that the comment is most directed towards, and this could then beindicated (in some form, such as a footnoting system) in a discrete manner at the end of the paragraph/section that the comment is referring to (via a pop-up box or in a separate frame)?
This would make comments
context-sensitive and would also allow the reader to digest the topic
enough to make sense of the comments that refer to it!
@Tuhin KumarHi Tuhin, fantastic response! It is true that comments need to be moderated whether or not they appear on the side-bar or at the bottom. I guess the side-commenting system was meant for medium-scale websites that usually feature discursive articles which are written to evoke discussion/conversation amongst readers. Huge enterprises like Smashing Mag have to keep their comments at the bottom due to the sheer volume of comments coming through on an hourly basis.
For a site like Tripping Words, I felt it would be a nice change to have the comments displayed in a more prominent place. Besides, I am happy to announce that the majority of the comments I receive here are usually very relevant and pertinent to the subject at hand (like yours!) and require minimal vetting.
But I do understand your point, in that the side bar can also serve as a showcase of selected comments. That would be a good way to encourage commenting too. I might just consider that for the re-design. Thanks Tuhin for sharing your insights.
BTW: I am a big fan of your work at Inspiring Pixel. I just listened to your screencast tutorial on typographic posters. Brilliant stuff!
@Mike SmithHi Mike, thanks for posting your opinion. I’m glad you found this post useful. The online commenting system has always interested me ever since “blogs” became part of everyday parlance.
I am hundred percent with you on the fact that side-bar commenting can potentially ruin advertising unless it is done in an unobtrusive way. I like your idea about having a fixed/permanent side-bar (something like a “frame”) which doesn’t hinder the browsing experience. Plus it shouldn’t be hard to implement. I actually used this concept of the fixed side bar in the new design as part of website navigation. Thanks again for the suggestions.
@Gonzo the Great
Haha…glad you find the pagination idea appropriate. I have actually included this feature in the new design, but it needs a bit more testing before release. The jQuery slider effect is a superb way to create a firm online presence. I might just toy with the idea over dinner tonight. You’ve really brought up some very interesting possibilities to revolutionize the commenting system as we know it!
@simonHi Simon, thanks for commenting. You have hit the nail on the head. Functionality precedes everything else but if a commenting system degrades gracefully on less modern browsers that I guess it doesn’t hurt to experiment with its visual display.
I guess if Jquery is used for the comments than an appropriate fallback must be programmed for users without the feature. This philosophy is similar for font-replacement techniques and the like. Cheers
@ElRobboThanks for writing in with your thoughts.
That is a very clever idea! Context-specific comments are really important in encouraging a continous and unimpeded discussion. Your suggestion is somewhat similar to the “tagging” system in Facebook for photographs, but more user-oriented (which is great). I guess the “index field” where uses allocate the index number should not be a mandatory field as this would allow readers with general comments to also post. Thanks for sharing.
Great post!!!
@ben
Why, thank you Ben!
I can understand your argument for more and better comment-interaction but i remain skeptic. It wouldn’t bother me to see a sidebar-comment section under the condition that you could hide it. Because…well, there are still people, like myself, who actually read the article and only skim through the comments. This mostly due to the rather idiotic comments given on most websites (though i must say not on this one luckily). Interesting concept nonetheless.
@Eva
Hi Eva. Thanks for the response.
I am totally in tune with your reservations over side-bar comments. It is interesting (and heartening) to know that you fall under the category of readers who read the whole article.
I guess ideally, there should be a way for readers to “hide” these comments if it gets in the way of reading.
Do stick around for the release of the new design. Would love to hear your thoughts on that.
Thoughtful. Maybe the comments in the sidebar should somehow reflect cream of the crop rather than chronological order. To be engaging, it’s not relevant who said what first, but rather who was more profound. Maybe reader ratings of comments could help point to the cream of the crop. Needs more thought.
Hi Josh,
Before I continue I would just like to add that I have never seen or heard of your blog before reading this article. That’s not a bad thing. I don’t really go looking for blogs. Anyway…
You mentioned that placing comments in a more prominent position in relation to the article would encourage users to post comments. It has also been discussed that another possible avenue to increase user comments would be to display the only best (or the latest) comments in the side bar. I feel that, in the case of your blog, these are secondary to one crucial element that goes above and beyond design/positioning.
Your responses to your reads comments by far outweigh any design decision you could possibly make. Users will find the articles comments if they are at the bottom or on the side and when they do, they will most likely end up reading at least one of your comments.
I find that your diligence to respond to each and every comment, thanking the individual and discussing their opinion/suggestion makes all the difference.
I almost never comment on any website but your friendly nature (based on the comments) and the effort you go to in making each commenting user feel both welcome and appreciated have made join in the discussion.
Having said that, I do like your idea to place more prominence on the comments but think there may be an easier way about it – I just haven’t thought of one yet. As mentioned, having comments in a sidebar comes with numerous issues however you decide to implement it.
Keep at it. I’m sure together with your dedicated readers you will come up with a great implementation of this idea.
NB: I think the comment text area is too small.
Good post and interesting that your thoughts echo those of Institute for the Future of the Book - I discovered CommentPress (http://www.futureofthebook.org/commentpress/about-commentpress/) about a year ago - it is a theme for WordPress which does what you suggest - elevate comments to the same level as that of the author of the post. Their research confirms your suspicions - it does seem to enhance conversation and promote a dialogue.
Some research has been done in this area. The Institute for the Future of the Book developed CommentPress (as noted above).
We began using CommentPress on WriteToReply (http://writetoreply.org) but found that it needed an overhaul and funded the original developer of CommentPress to rewrite it as digress.it (http://jiscpress.blogs.lincoln.ac.uk/2009/09/15/introducing-digressit/). During that time, CommentPress also got an overhaul, so now there are two similar plugins and themes for WordPress that offer this functionality.
One area that we haven’t fully addressed is ensuring that digress.it meets accessibility requirements. That’s coming next.
oh, yes… one more: The Commentariat theme, developed by Steph Gray in UK Government, also positions the comment box beside the text:
http://blog.helpfultechnology.com/2009/02/introducing-commentariat-the-poi-taskforce-report/
I know Steph was influenced by the work done on CommentPress. Unlike CommentPress, which provides paragraph-level commenting, Commentariat retains normal post-level commenting.
@LouisHi Louis, thanks for leaving your thoughts. I definitely agree with your view that the side-bar can possibly reflect comments that have substantial value in terms of promoting discussion. Reader ratings are a good way to facilitate the selection process.
However, will this differentiation negate people from commenting in the long run if their comments do not seem to make it on the list? Like you said, we need to further develop this idea.
@DenifiaHi Denifia,
A warm welcome to Tripping Words and thanks for the kind words.
Good to hear that you enjoyed the comments posted to this article. The readers here are my number one priority- they add value to the work/research I do here at Tripping Words. You make a very pertinent point about responding to reader comments; I do feel that if a reader has taken the effort/time to write a comment, the least they deserve is a clear response that further validates their opinions.
I guess the issue of side-bar comments needs further thought as it does certainly have good and perceivably “bad” points. I wanted to conceptualize a way to engage readers more actively in the discussion by giving them a more substantial “voice”.
Thanks again for the well-written response. I look forward to seeing you here more often!
Oh…and the new design of Tripping Words will feature a more user-intuitive commenting system with larger field areas.
@Rob Flavell
Hello Rob. The link you provided has really been an eye-opener for me. In fact it has provided me with more confidence in taking this idea of side-bar commenting a little further. So thanks heaps for that! I’ve checked out the theme and it seems to provide more flexibility for commenters to post context-specific comments in relation to each paragraph posted through an implicit indexing system. I’ll definitely have to explore this idea further although I doubt there is an existing plug-in for ExpressionEngine (the CMS I am using). Looks like I’ll have to mess around with some code and see how it goes!
@Joss WinnThanks again for the valuable information! CommentPress seems to reflect my own thoughts on how comments could be displayed to promote higher levels of reader-conversations (like this one we’re having). I look forward to your research on user accessibility and CommentPress/digress.it. I am currently using ExpressionEngine, but it seems to me that developers within the Wordpress community have taken great strides towards making side-bar commenting a more practical reality.
I’ll also be checking out Steph’s theme. I am however a little cautious over paragraph-level commenting because it can potentially be confusing for a select number of readers who are used to the traditional single-entry commenting system.
Thanks again Joss for pointing me to your application, digress.it. I’ll be reading about it with much interest!
I should just clarify that we bootstrapped digress.it through funding we received, but the plugin is the hard work of Eddie Tejeda at http://visudo.com
I like your continued pursuit to challenge the norm. What about, instead of pulling the comments to the sidebar, you instead saw subscript numbers within the content (similar to footnote links) that would link to comments specifically related to that piece of comment? Just a thought since we’re thinking outside of the box.
Think its a great idea.
Thinking that if you showed some teasers in the sidebar and with anchor tags ref. to the comments div and with a scrollTo animation you wouldnt be confused.
@Chris Thurman
Welcome back Chris!
Comment-indexing is a good idea, but I guess it should be styled in a way that allows readers a quick and easy way to interact with these comments. Facebook image/status tagging follows a similar philosophy.
The only potential problem I see is when a single paragraph attracts loads of comments and this would result in a cluster of subscript numbers shown on a single page. But I’m sure there are ways to work around this.
Thanks for the suggestion; I’ll definitely be considering this idea as I work closer to the completion of the new design!
@Michael Lajlev
Hi Michael
That is certainly a feasible solution! A comment-snippet on the side-bar with appropriate linkage to the comment-proper will set up a nice editorial environment for discussion. However, the next question that needs tackling is what comment-snippets get featured on the sidebar? The first 10 comments? But I definitely like where your idea is going.
Did anyone tell you about how the difficult is a long term reading in black background screens?
Just saying.
I love creative thinking, despise the ‘do it because that’s how we’ve always done it that way’ crowd. That said, I don’t agree with putting comments anywhere except the bottom unless:
You somehow make them unobtrusive to the article.
Speaking as a photog and used to be web designer, there are inherent focus problems with this. Anyone who knows a whit about visual composition understands that a picture has to be about something. So does a post. If my eye is flitting back and forth between two or more elements, I will lose the all important aspect of what it is.
If you can arrange the elements (like a sidebar in a mag) that might work.
One other thing. Whether we like it or not, people get used to elements being in certain places. Move them and you create tension and a feeling of discomfort.
To my thinking, sometimes things do work they way they are. But we should always ask and continue to ask why.
Hal Brown
Thanks for the comment Hal. I agree that every page has to sustain some form of visual harmony - and readers are generally accustomed to seeing comments at the bottom of posts. However, I also do believe that careful experimentation can lead newer and more exciting trends.